Evolution vs Creation/Intelligent DesignI have a friend who is a Christian and an evolutionist, and we have been talking about this issue lately. I believe in God's creation as described in Genesis 1. I believe that evolution does not fit with the Scriptures. I believe in a literal 6 day creation. And I believe that the earth is much younger than evolutionists do (no less than 6,000 years, but I doubt more than 20,000). I have spent a lot of time sharing my arguments for the creationist position lately and I don't feel like rehashing them here, for now, but stay tuned. If you have any arguments you would like to share, for or against my position, I'd love to hear them. Given the nature of this blog, I would ask that the emphasis be on the text, but the scientific arguments are welcome as well. As for the Ben Stein (GO STEIN) movie, see you there!!!
6 comments:
Hey Randall,
I was able to see a screening of the documentary last week. It is definitely worth watching but it may not be what you expect. It is not a Christian movie so the gospel isn’t presented, but it really does show the hostility among most evolutionists in the scientific community. I only had two problems with it. First, the director inserted many clips during Ben Stein’s interviews for humor and I think that may distract people from the message and point that he was making. The clips basically illustrate that evolutionist are like gun carrying Nazi’s – a little extreme. Second, it is a little slow – there’s 3 minutes wasted of Stein walking around a museum if Darwin without any commentary or points made. Also, anyone who watches this should keep in mind that this documentary wasn’t about the details of the two sides of the ID/Evolution debate but mostly about the elitist control of our current scientists. The best part, by far, is the last interview with Richard Dawkins – especially if you have heard him in interviews and debates with Christians – it was nice to see him honestly clueless. “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools” – Rom 1:22
Blessings,
Keith
The first of my collage degrees was in earth science. Concentrating in geology, studying rock ages, layers, and types, among many other things. Being a believer though, I came to the conclusion that the earth was created either at/around 4004 BC, as the genealogies would lead us to conclude. Or, the earth is billions of years old with the Garden of Eden coming into play at 4004 BC. I have hours of reasons why, but I would ask, not challenge, you as to how a 20,000 year possibility could fit into the debate, rather than the conclusion I have come to? My base reason for the question is that these rock types were either made with the appearance/characteristics of being billions of years old, or they are billions of years old, requiring a gap theory of some kind.
@ 64278
I’m glad someone else is commenting on Randall’s blog…
I do agree with you that a 20,000 year number seems arbitrary and unnecessary, so I echo your question to Randall, where would he find support for such a number?
But you also said something that caught my attention.
You said,
“… that these rock types were either made with the appearance/characteristics of being billions of years old, or they are billions of years old, requiring a gap theory of some kind.”
I’ve never understood why people say that the earth has the “appearance or characteristics of being billions of years old.” How do you know what a billion year old earth looks like? For me a 6000 year old rock would be a very old rock and it would have the appearance of a very old rock. How would a billion year old rock look older than a 6000 year old rock?
I think there are some very major problems (both scientifically and theologically) for those who hold to the gap theory, theistic evolution, or even just a billion year old universe; If there was any kind of disease, sickness, or death before Adam and Eve sinned – then the foundation of the gospel is critically compromised. Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men,” Genesis 1:31 “And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good.” Was the world good before Adam and Eve or were animals dieing? Also it would have been odd for God to have a plan that significantly involved us as human beings but waited as the universe ran it’s course for billions of years and then finally makes man in His image in a sliver of time at the end.
As far as the science behind an old earth… there are plenty of resources online to answer those issues.
Blessings,
Keith
Keith
I really can not get into the apparent age of rocks and the universe without several long paragraphs, so for the blogs’ sake, I would (in a polite way) just refer you to any of the on line sources for a good answer. As far as there being big problems with gap theories, space time warpings, or anything other than the literal interpretation of creation, I agree with you, there are big problems. But on the other side of the discussion, I would suggest that if Genesis was actually meant to be just a literary work communicating basic Christian principals, rather than a literal account of creation, then in my opinion, if the universe was billions of years old, then that glorifies God all the more. To think that God would have spent billions of years preparing the Earth just for us humans, well that would just show how much He loved us all the more. So weather 6 days, or 6 billion years, God is glorified, and we are His creation.
My main issue with a relatively small number such as 20,000 years is that on the one hand, it does not by a long shot satisfy any secular scientists, and it makes an obvious problem out of a literal 6 day event. In other words, neither side is satisfied… Great topic Randall!
O.K. It would seem I'm a bit behind in responding to some comments here, so you're going to get the short version.
As for the movie, I did not expect it to be Christian or to present the gospel. I am excited that someone is standing up to the bias toward evolution and the exclusion of any competing theories. However, it does sound like I'll be left wanting more of an argument for intelligent design, while the movie seems to stop at simply trying to gain a hearing for I.D. But, I'm good with that.
As for the 20,000 year figure, it comes from some estimates I have heard based on scientific observations such as the decreasing orbit of the moon, and other such things. Such evidence does not so much seek to establish an exact age as much as put some limits on how far out you could go. Also, I think that it is demonstrable for the Scripture that the genealogies do skip generations. This is not to say that they are in error at all. In the culture one could say that Edward begot Randall even though he was my grandfather, not my father. I am not so up on all this, but so goes the argument. That is why I give a range. I'm saying we can't know exactly how old the earth is, but I believe in a young earth.
64278, you say that there are "big problems" with gap theories, yet you seem to be saying that it is still possible that the earth is billions of years old?
I’m saying that “IF” Genesis 1-2 were not meant to literal, “THEN”, the argument for an extremely old Earth may possibly have some merit, yet not without problems.
I agree that the generations can have gaps, not listing each and every generation, but there are still two things to consider. One- Matt 1:17 seems to eliminate any gaps from Abraham up to Jesus based on a literal count of 14 x 3 groups of generations, so if there are any gaps it would have to be between Cain and Abraham. And two- If the six days are literal days, then there are no gaps between day one and day 6. Also Gen 1:1 does not seem to allow any gaps within itself as may have suggested in the past. One other point would be that I believe one can calculate by the age of Noah and Adam, how much older Noah was, therefore narrowing the possible gap zones down to between Noah and Abraham…. I don’t want to hog the blog so I’ll stop here, but check into what I have said to see if you agree.
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